Legally speaking, this should NOT be a federal issue. Rowe v Wade violated the 10th Amendment. Abortion should be a state-decided issue. This way libs in Cali can have their babies aborted legally and the bible-belt cons can have their legislation outlawing it. Did we all forget this is how America was designed to work?
Let the individual states structure, legislate, and enforce their OWN laws and in the end we can see who's way works the best.
And by the way, for the record, OB/GYN's are the 'experts' in this field, are they not? They collectively believe that life begins at conception.
Just wanted to clear that up for the pro-choicers who have a difficult time understanding the typical libertarian-pro-life belief system that so many Americans adhere to.Abortion: Let's clear things up...from a pro-lifer's stand point. Is this so hard to understand?
thank you for clearing that up. i'd like the chance to make my position equally clear.
i find it ironic that the party that wants to outlaw abortion is the same party that wants to eliminate welfare and medicaid.
i find it ironic that those groups most opposed to abortion are also dedicated to eliminating access to birth control.
i find it ironic that so many pro-lifers declare that a woman already has complete control over her body and can therefor prevent a pregnancy, even in cases of rape and incest.
i find it despicable that a group calling itself the Army of God could justify the murder of a bodyguard and the attempted murder of said bodyguard's wife, even though neither of them had the ability to carry out any abortions. (see also: Paul Hill).
i find it ironic that the party that wants to outlaw abortion 'because the fetus is innocent' doesn't have a problem with speeding up a death-penalty process that already results in 8% of capital cases exhausting their legal appeals BEFORE it's found out that they convicted the wrong person. (look at the sentences commuted by gov ryan in illinois a few years back and grab a calculator - the math isn't that hard).
to compromise, i'll go along with you. let each state decide. but don't try to pull a south dakota stunt and make it a crime for a citizen to travel to another state to secure an abortion where it's legal.
but for myself, i will not interfere in another person's right to determine what happens inside their own body.
this is my position.Abortion: Let's clear things up...from a pro-lifer's stand point. Is this so hard to understand?
My pleasure. Interesting question and good responses.
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agreed. reverse roe v wade, so the taxpayers no longer are responsible. leave it to the individual states to legislate on. and the procedure should be kept between a woman and her doctor. the federal government was never given the constitutional authority to envade in the citizens lives like they have.
I am pro life, but if anybody else wants to kill their child, then far be it from me to tell them otherwise. just pay for the procedure yourself.
I'm all for it.. as soon as there is an end to Federal assistance for welfare to the states that outlaw it. I'm all for states making their own mandates.. so long as they also agree to pay the cost of the decisions they make. It's not my responsibility to do so.
Everyone deserves enough rope to hang themselves if they so wish.
Though personally, I could not care less about the issue. Not my problem; I know how to use a condom.
So does your solution include the right for people in the ';Red'; states to travel to a ';Blue'; state to have the done? Or will they face criminal prosecution?
And Pro-choice does not mean Pro-abortion just to clarify...
You want smaller government and less interference, yet want to legislate morality.
As an OB/GYN myself and having many colleges in this profession I wonder where you get the ';they collectively believe that life begins at conception'; comment. A zygote is not viable.
Perhaps your argument would have more merit were it based in reality.
';and the bible-belt cons can have their legislation outlawing it';.
So in other words, women in California and New York get to have more rights than women in the bible belt?
No, you don't want to tell people how to live at all. The all purpose 10th amendment argument is as tired as it is false. If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you provide a link that substantiates the claim that OBGYNS collectively believe life begins at conception?
';They collectively believe that life begins at conception.';
Prove what you claim.
When OB/GYN's can breathe life into dust, I'll acknowledge their expertise
Uh, you're wrong. If a lib lived in the Bible belt then should they be able to get their babies aborted?
It's a wedge issue which suits our government perfectly. When we fight among ourselves, we basically leave them alone to do what they want.
Science and religion consider conception the point of a new human being.
Law and liberal Americans consider the rights of the mother only, allowing her to make the decision.
This battle has been raging since Ancient Greece. We're not likely to solve it to everyone's satisfaction, but we better start watching our government better!
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Kman:
I often work for doctors, but rarely discuss politics. I have posed this question to two of them, a nephrologist and a pulmonologist. Both say without hesitation that a unique life is formed at conception. Doctors are scientists don't forget.
EDIT
The 10th Amendment:
Roe was upheld because Texas' law did not pass the ';strict scrutiny'; test, forcing the court to rule based on due process of law. This ruling was not in violation of the 10th Amendment due to the applicability of the due process clause.
It was a split decision, but there is nothing illegal about their finding.
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Little Red:
Don't you mean colleagues? I don't believe I've ever met a doctor that can't spell colleagues, but then I've never worked for an obstetrician. Are you sure you're a medical doctor because you're making a legal argument when you talk about viability?
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tonalc2
fun fact? LOL That is a fun fact.
I guess it depends on the question:
1. If a 12 year-old girl is raped by her genetically mutated brother, should she be allowed an abortion?
2. Should abortion be used as a form of birth control?
This would only remove the fight to the states and would not resolve the issue. Pro life supporters would still try to pass laws banning abortion and call it murder and people on the pro choice side of the argument would still opposes them. It really does not matter what happens in the law, women got abortions before they were legal and will continue to so matter what laws are passed and with the introduction of the abortion pill it will now be safe and easier than ever. When both sides realize this the pro life moment will concentrate their efforts on convincing women not to have abortions and the pro choice movement will disappear, and our politics will return to arguments about policy.
I may live in area called 'the Bible Belt', however, I believe killing babies
at any age is very wrong I wouldn't care where I called home. I don't
thump my Bible and try to tell you or anyone else how you should live,
that is your right as an American to pursue happiness in the best manner you can. I will say it does take a cold hearted person to willfully take the life of a child, no matter the age of said child, whether from conception to adulthood, whether California, Kentucky or anywhere else, whether rich, poor or in between. People who harm children are of the lowest scum known to the universe! This means
anyone and everyone who do these hideous things to children!
You didn't need to clear anything up for me. How presumptive of you! It's your opinion that it shouldn't be a federal issue, and that it violates the 10th amendment. I disagree, and I've always understood this is one of the pro-lifer's mantras.
It also seem to be your opinion that no one in the Bible Belt ever has abortions and it's only those liberals in places like CA that do so. And by the way? My opinion is that if you believe that you are out of touch with reality. OB/GYN's ';collectively'; believe that life starts at conception? Gee, you make that sound like fact when it is still only your opinion.
This country is split about evenly on the abortion issue. Consequently, there are also ';so many'; Americans who believe in choice. Is that so hard to understand?
This is a medical issue first and foremost. Secondarily it's a socio-economic health issue. If you look at the colony from a bird's eye view, you'll see we're fast overpopulating, especially in our slums. Outlawing abortion would exponentially increase this problem. But the fact that makes me sure I want this federally mandated, is that unintended pregnancy (that's an important word, 'unintended') is mitigated best by comprehensive policy, rather than blind policy. From adoption, to sex education, to contraception, the morning after pill, and for teens, taking a week or 3 to make the right decision is critical. Once you have a kid, that's it, your life is locked in for at least 20 years. Give us a week at least. Do you mourn the death of sperm?
Every doctor I've ever met has been pro choice. Can you substantiate your claim that OB/GYN's share your perspective?
Federal courts rule on murder charges, so they most certainly can clarify what a life is for legal purposes. That is certainly not a 10th Amendment violation. Besides, Article 1 Section 8 Clause 16 of the constitution (the Elastic Clause) practically contradicts the 10th Amendment - which means that the courts get to decide how to interpret it.
Real libertarians don't believe states should make laws that reduce personal freedoms either, they simply believe that smaller government agencies tend to be more efficient.
You logic goes something like this - ';I think it should be legal, but I don't like it and states should be allowed to ban it';. Eh? Most of the times I hear this line it's by folks appearing to be moderate so they can push their agenda just a small step further then cite precedent, then repeat.
I don't think they understand that when the sperm meets the egg...
that all the DNA is there, the sex has been determined,eye color, everything in one compact little egg and the little blob of goo starts to grow...growing = life.
No getting around that one.
I'm to the point now, that it's no use talking to someone who wants an abortion. IF they get to heaven in the afterlife (if they believe in it or not, they will either be wrong or right) wouldn't it be interesting to see a conversation between the aborted baby and the host womb.
I don't have a hard time understanding why you believe what you believe. I just don't happen to agree with it. And neither does the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court decided that states could regulate abortions only in certain circumstances, but otherwise women did have a right to privacy and reproductive autonomy. The woman鈥檚 right to privacy was held to be a fundamental right which could only be denied if a compelling state interest existed.
This does not violate the 10th.
And I would be interested in your source for the outrageous statement about OB/GYNs.
fun fact: Polls show that only 22% of Americans believe that abortion should be illegal in all cases.
Oh, but you forgot about poor welfare mothers in the Bible belt who can't afford to travel to New York! Oh the horror! That's why dems believe it's only fair that all their stupid ideas are passed onto every state.
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